Feed the Right Wolf

Hi Cole,

I have been reading your posts and you have been accomplishing a lot which is great. It may be hard for you to see because you are in the thick of it but because I am an outsider and not a porn addict (just a wife of one) I can see you are working hard and improving even though it may not seem enough or as much as you would like.

You are strong and have proven that!!!!

In my situation my husband never wanted to come near me at all. He ignored me and rejected me for porn, it was his preference. He says it was because he did not like himself and because of that couldn't believe that I loved him and wanted him (even though I told him all the time and fought and begged for him to be intimate with me and to include me in his life), he couldn't believe what I told him and showed him at all thus making himself lonely and missing that connection with someone so turned to porn to fill that void. He says he then felt he was a part of something, something he was missing and wanted. I have found this out after twenty years of being with him and I just turned 38, this has been going on since I was 17 and I had no idea, I just thought I had a higher sex drive and he didn't like sex. He was a very good liar and very good at covering his tracks. I was so alone and wanted him so much and never turned him down ever in twenty years. Now I think because I was so depraved that I want it every night, twice a day even or more. Now I feel like the addict. I think maybe I would have been somewhat this way anyways maybe just not to the extreme and I think maybe I am trying to make up for lost time, who knows.

I think why I am writing this and telling you this is because I know what it is to feel like when your partner does not want to be with you. It is the worst feeling in the world and I can't imagine dealing with that and trying to get over your addiction at the same time. That feeling that you get when your partner does not want you kills you inside, it wrecks you and who you are, it did for me anyways and I am now on a quest to get myself back because I don't like who I have become and who I am, it is not the real me either. I do hold a lot of anger that I have changed and I didn't even have a choice about anything, my husband's choices changed me and that was not right or fair.

Do you think maybe your wife feels the same as me (the anger and sadness) and is shutting you out because she is having a hard time perhaps?

Please know that your hard work will pay off and you deserve to have a great life rid of this addiction and you will if you continue to believe in yourself and put in the effort which you have been doing so well.

Have a good weekend as well Cole:)

_________________
Good sex begins when your clothes are still on. --William Masters & Virginia Johnson

Cappy

Hi Eadeca,

Thank you very much for your post. It came at a really good time. I am frustrated and feeling very alone.

An argument occured last night which just put me into shutdown mode and I'm struggling to pull out of it. My anger was provoked when my wife snapped at me (I've been pretty good at not letting this get to me), but I was really tired, that is not an excuse. Just some color for the situation. Of course as soon as she identified that I was doing that, I stopped. However it was too late. One sentence of anger from me and she got on the defensive attacking me and shutting me down. Her reasoning is sound, in that over the past 14 + years, when I didn't control my anger, she was very hurt by it. At this point, I am unable to make any critisim, suggestions or response. She has told me on many occasions over the past year that she is all done and can't and will not take it any more. I've been in counsuling for 3 years, working on trying to fix this. My therapist has explained that I go into a biochemical defense when this occurs. This was a learned behavior from my childhood and I have made great progress to identify triggers as is with this porn addiction to prevent it from occuring. Sometimes it all occurs so quickly, I'm unable to stop it and can only live with the consequeses. I have come to accept cold, demeaning lectures, uninterested in my attempts to rectify the situation and make up for it in caring and loving ways. If I leave the bed and go to sleep some where else, that tosses gas on the fire. If I stay in the bed and sleep on the very edge, everything seems to be fine in the morning and I get asked if I'm over it. Honestly, I'm not, but I put on a good face, have a positive attitude, etc. even though I'm none of those emotions are gone. I just surpress them as I always have. What I find most challenging is she wants me to tell her what I'm thinking and let her into my world. However she doesn't like my world and continues to berate me in how I think, feel and act. I'm feeling so isolated with no where to turn but this forum.

In addition to these issues, I have the porn addiction which just eats me alive sometimes. We have sex about once a week. 2 weeks ago she was feeling a little crazy and we had sex 2 times (which happens every blue moon). That physically hurt her and shes on the mend. (she has medical issues that cause her to have infections from the abrasion, she doesn't like lube.) So I'm in limbo again waiting for the return of sex. I've even gone so far as to politely ask for loving just a hand to hold me over and leave it at that. She acknologes and says that we'll take care of that. However the wait goes on. As you have the need for more stimulation, if I could have an hour or 2 of pleasure. I'd be placated for the time being. However I am what I term as a sex-a-holic, a week later I'm climbing the walls. This has been happening for many years and what was once something I would do every once in a while to get me over the hump, has become an uncontrolable addiction just to satisfy those desires, no matter how shallow and unfulfilling they are. It just gets me through the next couple of days.

Today I have reached my 60 day goal, but am so down I it's affecting my work and everything around me.

By the way, if my wife had sex once or twice a year, that would be more than enough. I know this by her lack of interest and shutting me down after 30 - 60 minutes of foreplay. This has been going on for at least 12 + years.

I'm at wits end. Sometimes I just want to toss in the towel and accept my fate, regardless of the price. I feel that I have made some progress however it feels that it's all for nothing sometimes. Honestly, I don't want to lose anything and thus am working on addressing my faults.

I love my wife dearly. I have taken CSC's advise to heart and show my wife my love and commitment differently and more consciously every day. I would give everything I have up, if I could fix this. I have even considered having my sexual organs removed if I thought it would make a difference.

I am steadfast in my commitment to achive my next goal of 90 days. At the same time I am feeling hopelessly lost and wondering if this is a fruitless effort.

Eadeca...thank you again for your support. It means a lot to me to have a woman persepctive from someone on the outside looking in.

_________________
Start date 3/29
Reset date 5/16
New start date 9/12
05290803

Those things that bind us are the most difficult to unravel

...continuation from previous post...

While many of you reading will be thinking to yourselves, go get couples counciling, it's just not that simple. I would go, but I need my wife to go as well. We obviously have a communication issue. However, if I'm the only one with a problem (qualified statement), then there is no need for her to go (support or her own issues). I've suggested it maybe a dozen times, in different ways, different approaches and different timing, I always get the same look and response...if you need me to, I will. But when the pavement hits the road, scheduling is always a problem.

My wife says that she can't go on like this. I can't either. I'm doing everything I possibly can and I still make mistakes. She doesn't have room for any mistakes as she says I've broken her. While I've tried to get out of her what she mean's when she says she's all done. She won't tell me and of course I'm bracing for the worst (get out of her life)....I know I have really put myself in the worst situation as possible and just when I think I'm finally going to dig out of it, I say something stupid, it gets twisted around and before I know it, I'm further behind than I was before.

I can hardly see straight at this point. I'm doing everything I can to fight the anger, frustration and longing to act out.....

_________________
Start date 3/29
Reset date 5/16
New start date 9/12
05290803

Those things that bind us are the most difficult to unravel

Hi Cole,

I really admire your honestly and your hard work. I am having a hard time reading your posts just as I did CSC's because I really think your wives have issued too. It sounds like they are giving excuses as well in some matters and should be dealing with their problems too. A couple things about your wife stood out to me that really make me sad for you. One was the medical condition she has and not liking lube, really? If you want to be with your spouse some times you really just need to suck it up and use whatever helps you be with them because YOU WANT TO BE. There is supposed to be compromise in a marriage. I see you doing things and working on your issued to the best of your abilities and what is she doing? She won't go to a couple's counselor? Well if you want your marriage to work you try everything possible. Yes it is uncomfortable at first and yes it can be scary and yes you are airing out your private matters but that is what you do because you want your marriage to work. Have you ever asked her what she wants out of this marriage? What she wants and expects from you in all situations? I mean if she wants you to share everything with her and then berates you for it then that is just not right at all. What does she want you to do when you get angry? Her attacking you is no different than you getting angry at her for snapping at you. Maybe when your wife snapped you should have just taken a time out to calm down a bit before continuing that argument but she should have done the same thing as well. I know this is easier said than done.

I don't understand these women who would be happy with having sex with their husbands only once or twice a year, I really don't. It's like more of a friendship or room mate situation than a marriage. I know people have differing sex drives and again compromise has to play in that area as well but I'm sorry if you only want to have sex with your spouse once or twice a year and you are ok with that then you have issues as well I would say. Could be medical or psychological but still a big problem I would say and they need to look into that issue they have as well.

I don't agree with what you do being married but I also don't agree with how your wife is behaving either and I don't think it is helping matters at all. It's not helping her and it's not helping you. I would sit her down and say what do you mean you are done, what does that mean? I want an answer and I want to find a way to work together and we can't do that if you won't be honest with me either. I think you should both lay your issues on the table and come up with a plan to work on them that is agreed upon by both of you. If you want to go to couples counseling well you both should, if you think it may help then what is the harm of trying and she should want to try. If she needs space and wants to seperate for a bit then and she thinks it will help then you have to try that as well. All of these things need to be discussed and she needs to be involved as well, saying I'm done but doing nothing solves nothing.

Once a week would not be good enough for me either and it definitely isin't when I get less than that maybe once or if I am lucky twice a month if I fight about it, my problem though is that my husband chooses porn instead and then has no energy left for me.

Does your wife know about your p&m? I don't agree with the porn at all but if she does not want to be sexual with you and you have asked her first then how can she be angry with you masturbating? She is refusing you. I can understand if you were doing it everyday but if you would like sex 4 times a week or something and you compromise and agree to 2 times maybe and she won't do it or backs out all the time then she is not holding up her end of the bargain is she. If she agrees to pleasure you other ways besides intercourse then she should be engaging in that because that is what she agreed to do. Now I also understand that things may come up illness, tired once in a while, busy etc but if she is not doing anything ever then that is a problem and she needs to be held accountable as well.

Sorry if I said something I shouldn't but I really feel for you and CSC as I know what it feels like to be rejected and it sucks, it really really does and honestly I think rejection from the person you love most in the world is unbearable. It breaks you and makes you feel worthless.

Please keep in touch as I would like to know how you are doing and to offer my support. You have been working so hard and you need to be recognized for that.

_________________
Good sex begins when your clothes are still on. --William Masters & Virginia Johnson

Cappy

Hi Eadeca,

I was hoping you were going to respond and am so glad you did.

My wife and I have different needs which in some ways makes it difficult to balance. She is a talker. She likes to talk and listen, it's all about communication for her. (communication - ironic) I am a physical person. I need to feel and hold. She doesn't get the feeling and holding. Ever since kids, touching her in any way other than a massage is absolutely out of the question. She doesn't want to give the kids a bad impression on how to treat a woman. Which I get to some extent, but not to the point of complete shut down. (She loves the attention from the kids, that she needs and wants as any mother would.) She also doesn't like to be touched by anyone but the kids. Ok, but quite a challenge for me as it's my way of connecting. While I'm on the subject of touching, we also don't have make up sex. That makes it very hard for me to reconnect. It wasn't always like this, but it has been for atleast 12 years.

So what does she want when I get angry? She doesn't want me to ever get angry again. Even though I've been to therapy, anger management and read plenty on the subject. For the most part, I just let it go. Like the saying, don't worry about the small stuff. (can't remember exactly how that goes.) When I do get angry, I can't see straight, I say things that are interpreted completely wrong and I spend the next 24 - 48 hours explaining what I really meant. I have said some hurtful things in the past that just came out wrong. Regardless my explaination and identifying root causes of the anger, the damage is done. She has been hurt and I can never fix that. Especially since she remembers everything I've ever done, exactly what I said, what I was wearing, the weather and the time of day, just to mention a few things she never forgets. So I will always pay for those sins. To make matters worse, she is the MOST sensitive person I have ever met. Not something she was 20 years ago, but the damage I have caused will never be forgoten. Me on the other hand can't remember things like that. I remember generalities, subjects, feelings but not every single one and the older I get the fuzzier those memorys become. Another fault that is just what it is.

So now that I have described that, she is also a type A person. She runs everything, does everything and expects that when she needs something, she'll tell you. So when I make assumptions about what I can do to help, they are wrong or not done 'properly'. That goes for things I've been given instructions on as well. If I don't follow those instructions, and do it my way, it's wrong and she will redo it, just about every time. With that said, she does everything and runs herself ragged. Does laundry, puts it away, gets clothes out for the whole family for the week, plans out an entire week of lunch and dinner, is a short order cook and the list goes on. So I have it good, except if I have a suggestion on how to do something differently. Then it's a critisim and goes back to the senstivity and it's a disaster of epic proportions.

I'm getting off topic here...so going back to the roomate verses marriage. For a few years, I looked at our relationship as a roomate situation. It felt like that, we acted like that and it lead me down the road of p&m, etc.. As I said before, I'm a physical person and need to feel that touch from time to time. Not to just living with someone. At some point she noticed the roommate situation and told me she needed more affection from me. We discussed and I changed my ways but saying nice things, telling her when I was thinking about her, commenting on how she looked, buying flowers etc.. (side note, flowers doesn't equate to sex either, ever) Of course there are parameters around this, as one would expect.

Does my wife know about my p&m? She has made comments about it and how I flirt with other women. She has always flirted with guys and I've only come out of my shell in the past 4 or 5 years. She claims that she doesn't flirt every, she would never do that to me. She's called me on the carpet a couple of times about this and I have stopped. However we have not sat down and discussed this to any extent.

Why haven't I discussed? It will truely break her. I can't even fathom the damage I could cause by doing this. If it's a disaster because I haven't followed instructions clearly stated, something of this magnitude could put her in a insitution for ever. I love her very much. I do not want to do that to her. I've never intended to hurt her more than I have already.

This brings us to the problem of communication. She seems to have no problems communicating with everyone else and communication is something I have stuggled with saying the right things. So counciling to give us a framework to improve this will help us significantly. I am not giving up on this and will continue to try and make this happen. It's only bringing sanity to both of us.

Masturbating is something we have discussed. Although her concern for me doing this is that I am thinking of other women. Well, if there are fantasies I have, how else am I going to fantisize? I know it won't happen with us. Porn has not helped this cause.

Eadeca, you cannot say anything that that your shouldn't. I greatly appreciate your honesty and need to hear these things whether I like it or not. Your insight from your perspective and insight is very helpful to me.

I've aired a lot of dirty laundry here. I'm sure if my wife ever finds this, it will be the end of the world because she believes that our issues are our issues and no one elses business. However I need help, I'm getting help and I need to be able to get this out.

I have these needs that I'm trying to turn off. The bad wolf can be so cruel sometimes. I have not intentionally done these things to hurt my wife and if I could fix it in any way, I would. I love her very much and need her. Her greatest fear is that I'm going to leave her some day. I will not do that. She's stuck with me. I cannot live without her and want to address as much as I can from my side, make her happy and live happily ever after.

This complex situation should be so easy to solve. However unravelling this ball of kite string is so painful and humiliating, I can't believe I'm here documenting it for the world to see.

_________________
Start date 3/29
Reset date 5/16
New start date 9/12
05290803

Those things that bind us are the most difficult to unravel

Aside of my drama I am feeling better today. A little more positive and have made it to 61 days. This addiction is something that I got myself into and I must dig myself out of it. Eadeca, CSC, Peter and everyone on this board is so supportive. I can't thank you all enough for my gratitude.

_________________
Start date 3/29
Reset date 5/16
New start date 9/12
05290803

Those things that bind us are the most difficult to unravel

addendum to my previous post...all my dirty laundry....

Of course there are 2 sides to my story. When I'm down in the weeds frustrated, angry and depressed, I think about all of the negatives in my life. I don't have this and that seems like a hopeless cause, etc.. However, most of the time I am happy with my life. I have a great family, a good job and a car that takes me to and from work. I have my health...all things to be grateful for. I am feeling much better today as things seem to be returning to normal (as normal gets in my life ) Those of you reading are probably thinking I'm crazy. I can't disagree with that.

62 days and going strong

_________________
Start date 3/29
Reset date 5/16
New start date 9/12
05290803

Those things that bind us are the most difficult to unravel

Hi Cole,

I hope you are feeling a bit better now:)

You have to remember that you are trying to change yourself for the better, concentrate on that. Make your values and living to fill those values the priority. If your wife can't see your hard work and support you and make the changes she needs to make because from what you wrote she is far from perfect, then no matter what you do she will never be happy.

I know that you do not like or agree with some of the things you do and you need to work on those for yourself first. If you were single would you still want to make the same changes or are you only doing them for your wife?

Your wife seems like a control freak and does not help you to make the changes you want to make, to be honest I think she hinders you. You have a voice and you are entitled and should be encouraged to speak you views, ideas and plans without negativity. If you make a mistake oh well, that is life and that is how you learn and grow. Is your wife a martyr?

It sounds to me like she has put your marriage on the backburner to be a mother only. That is a very important job and she should be commended for her dedication and love for her kids but they are not her whole life and your kids deserve to have happy parents who love each other. If she only likes the kids touching her and no one else and she is criticizing you all the time and berating you what is she teaching your kids? Where do you think your kids learn what marriage is and how to treat their spouse? Where do you think your kids learn about love and emotions and communication and compromise? Their parents!!!! You fighting all the time and avoiding each other and not touching is hurting them. Kids need to see their parents hug, kiss and love each other. If you do not show them that then they will think it is ok to be standoffish, cold and unsupportive.

Your wife should want and require your touch and your love just as you require and need hers
I think she needs to agree to go to counseling with you because she has a lot of issues of her own

Sorry I did not want to go off about your wife that was not my intention at all
My goal was to tell you to concentrate on you that is most important, your kids need a healthy
Dad and role model and you can be that. You have done so much great work already and your effort shows, keep it up:)

_________________
Good sex begins when your clothes are still on. --William Masters & Virginia Johnson

Cappy

Eadeca...nothing you say will offend me or will be taken the wrong way. I greatly appreciate your insight and your full support. I feel better having gotten that out and having confirmation from you that it's not all just me. Being a guy, I don't always see things from a womans perspective and know thats very important.

I think my wife sees my hardwork. However some days it just isn't good enough, which leads me to believe the effort is all for nothing. However, you asked if I was doing this for my wife or for me. I am doing this for me. I can't in good conscience be a good person, role model, father and husband if I don't address this and put it behind me.

I have to run...but will answer your questions later.

Status:
Doing well today. Feeling more confident and not having second thoughts. Lusting after strangers has been reduced a lot and it couldn't have come fast enough with summer upon us.

_________________
Start date 3/29
Reset date 5/16
New start date 9/12
05290803

Those things that bind us are the most difficult to unravel

Hi Cole,

I am happy to hear that you are doing this for you, please do not let her actions discourage you and your progress and goals:)

It is nice to know that you are having better days, I wish I could say the same. I feel like my head is going to burst right now.

I see you putting in the hard work and your wife not appreciating it or trying to work at things herself and here I am busting my ass, participating in this forum, particpating in the recovery nation workshop diligently and the forum, reading whatever I can get my hands on and my husband does nothing. He is supposed to be doing the recovery nation workshop for recovery and does it once a week for 15 minutes if I remind him or get annoyed because he isin't doing it, he still won't talk to me and still shuts me out and lies and hides things. This has been going on since I found out May 7th. Every week there is a fight because he is not doing anything to change, he never tells me if he even thinks of having sex with me and when I ask he lies and says he will tell me when he thinks of sex, now I find out last night that he thinks of it a couple times a day, so he flat out lied to me. We have sex once a week now and it is usually me initiating it as well. He says its not the porn that he is thinking of its us, so why wouldn't he tell me then? That would be a good thing don't you think? Why would he lie and hide it? It is not the only thing that has happened either, he had Naked women photos saved in his photos folder in his email (he says he didn't know they were there yet he moved them into a folder to save them a long time ago so wouldn't he check to make sure he didn't have any of that stuff anymore), he had advertisements for an adult store saved in his email (these show lingerie models and adult items) as well as an advertisement from the same place that had been opened early this July and then was sitting in the deleted folder (he said he opened it by mistake when he was trying to delete it which I find strange considering he had moved other emails to deleted and they were not opened), why wouldn't he unsubscribe from being sent those advertisements? He had a porn movie in our house for over a month after I caught him that I had to get rid of and burn myself and he say he forgot it was there. This does not seem like someone ready or wanting to change. What is your take on this? Could he have forgotten the porn and emails? Could he have opened that email by mistake? Was he actually thinking of sex with me everyday or is it just porn or maybe my face on porn? I don't know and I don't know what to believe anymore because it is always me finding out after the fact. It is me always discovering these things and never him sharing anything, he shuts me out of his life and does not talk about the addiction or recovery at all with me (good or bad or anything). I am living in the dark in my own marriage and I can't take it anymore.

I told him sorries mean nothing I need to see proof, I need to see him trying and I don't. What would an active recovery look like to you? What would happen in pursuing that? What signs would you see?

I have told him that we need seperation and that I am done with this bs. I told him that I couldn't be lied to or mislead or given half truths or be shut out anymore and he agreed and dropped the ball so what am I supposed to do now?

Man my head hurts and I feel like I just want to run away.

_________________
Good sex begins when your clothes are still on. --William Masters & Virginia Johnson

Cappy